...
A quick disclaimer...I’m changing a few of the details about the kid involved in this post for obvious reasons. But everything else is just how it happened.
So last Friday evening, a young guy I know came over to the house to visit. He’s a good kid, someone I’ve known for a lot of years. I’m going to call him Jose for simplicity’s sake. He had some things he wanted to talk about, so we sat down on my couch and started to talk. As the conversation progressed, we ended up getting into some things that I don’t think he’d originally planned to talk about. But these things seemed to be pretty heavy on his heart, and I guess he wanted to get it all out into the open. He tends to be that kind of a kid.
It was fairly serious, what was happening in his life, so we ended up talking for quite a while. At the end of the conversation, I suggested that we should talk more and that it would be a good idea to sit down with one of our pastors, Jorge, and talk with him as well. Jorge had a difficult time as a teenager (which he’s really open about) and had struggled with a lot of the similar issues this young guy was struggling with. I figured it would be a good idea to talk with him and include him in the conversation.
Jose started to cry and quickly became very emotional. I explained why I thought we should talk with Jorge and that I had no doubt that Jorge would be very understanding...but he just cried harder. I continued talking and trying to calm him down...but then a weird thing happened. In the midst of his tears, he started to laugh. Granted it’s not the first time that’s happened, as I tend to say dumb things in Spanish when I’m trying to comfort or counsel people (it’s tough to talk in another language when things are emotional...it’s easy to get mixed up).
At any rate, with the crying and laughing going on at the same time, alarm bells were going off in my head. So I told Jose that I was going to pray for him. Right away, his head came up and very aggressively, he was like, “Why? Why do you think you need to pray?!” I knew for sure then, that something was wrong. This was a kid that has never had a problem with praying.
I didn’t say anything more, I just put my hand on his shoulder and started to pray and take authority over anything spiritual that shouldn’t be there. Immediately Jose started to convulse and shake. I kept praying and he kept convulsing, until I couldn’t manage to keep him on the couch, and he fell onto the floor. I stopped praying for a moment and went to the door and yelled at the first kid I saw to come and help me. It ended up being one of the guys who’s probably one of the spiritually stronger guys in the house...but who’s also one of the newest Christians. It was fine, but we had to talk about a few things afterwards. =)
At any rate, he joined me, and we continued to pray. I won’t get into all the details, but there are a couple of things I’d like to mention. First of all, whenever Jose spoke to us, it was often in the plural...as in we are doing this or we won’t do that, etc. Occasionally when it was clearly Jose speaking, he also referred to the demons (and I have no doubt that we were dealing with the demonic here) in the plural. For example, at one point he said something about “They’re coming back...”.
There was something else that I found even more interesting. As I mentioned above, trying to speak in another language in the middle of an emotional moment? Near impossible. And trust me...this was an emotional moment. =) So I was praying and using my authority in Christ almost exclusively (at that point) in English. What was interesting, was that when I said or prayed something in English, Jose would turn to me and respond very precisely to what I’d just said, but in Spanish. Jose doesn’t speak hardly a word of English (other than your basic, “Hi, how are you? I am handsome.” You know...the important stuff), so his being able to respond to what I was saying was not possible. At least not in human terms. Not to mention that he was still thrashing and struggling. We were having to hold him still so that he wouldn’t hurt himself (he kept trying to bang his head into the cement/tile floor, so we had to keep a pillow under his head). That’s all just to say that it would have been incredible difficult for him to figure out what I was saying, even if he had known some English. There was just too much going on.
The third thing I wanted to mention, was that he physically responded to the name of Jesus every time we used it. Without fail. I add that, not because I was surprised (I wasn’t), but to emphasize that, from the very moment this started, the end result was a done deal. I’m not trying to pat myself on the back here, but from the beginning I wasn’t afraid or even nervous. I was confident in the victory that I knew we had. The fact that whatever demonic presences were affecting Jose, they were subject to Jesus. And, well....Jesus loves me. =)
They also responded when we read scripture. Later on, once Tonchi (our other pastor) came over, I was reading different passages about who we are in Christ, and the spiritual battle we’re in, as Tonchi prayed. Every time I read something (especially, interestingly enough, the passages about who we are as Christians), Jose would moan and bang his head on the floor even more (even though, again, I was reading them in English).
After close to an hour, it became increasingly obvious that this was not going to be easy. As I said, I had decided to call Tonchi to come over and help. Tonchi was a great help since he could respond faster in Spanish and we could take turns praying. Three different times it seemed like we were finished and things were calming down...but then as we spoke to Jose and tried to get him to respond to us, everything would flare up again. After awhile, Tonchi started to talk directly to Jose and to try and get him to say, “I am Jose, and in Jesus’ name I am free!” but for the longest time he couldn’t do it.
Eventually he managed to grind out the words, and as he said “I am Jose and in Jesus name...” it was like someone was touching him with a high powered electrical wire. His back arched to the point where the top of his head was actually touching the floor. The moment he said, “...I am free” it was seriously like the air going out of a balloon. He gasped and just slumped down onto the floor and lay there.
At that point, we managed to drag him back up onto the couch. The worst of the convulsing and shaking was passing, but Jose still wasn’t himself. He mostly still couldn’t speak (he was only sometimes seemingly aware that we were there), or when he did speak, he just keep responding with nonsense or things that didn’t matter. We continued to try to get him to declare his freedom, but it was a battle for sure. Sometimes he would shake again...another time it was like he was seeing something up by the ceiling that he couldn’t tear his eyes away from (Tonchi acutally put his hand in front of Jose to block his view)...still other times it was like he’d suddenly fallen asleep. Those times, Tonchi or I would just say that, in the name of Jesus we wanted to talk to Jose, and his eyes would pop open and he’d be back.
At any rate, suffice to say that it was a long process. Two and a half (almost three) hours long of a process. But in the end, Jose was back and was mostly himself (although obviously subdued and shaken). He was able to communicate normally. We talked some more with him, and then prayed and sent him to bed.
As I’ve thought about this over the past few days, it strikes me that there will likely be a few naysayer’s (both from my non-Christian friends, as well as likely a few from my Christian friends as well), who will likely be rather sceptical, shall we say, about this story. I get that. Anyone who knows me...at all...knows that I’m Mr. Sceptical himself. I’ve had different significant spiritual experiences in my life, and probably just about every time there’s a part of me that’s questioning and evaluating exactly what’s going on. =) It’s just who I am. As I think back to what happened that night, it still feels a bit dreamlike. It’s hard to believe it all happened.
So don’t think for a moment that I was just caught up in all of this and wasn’t paying attention to everything as it happened. Or that I’m exaggerating the details for effect. That’s really not me. What you read here is what happened. And from Jose’s perspective, he has no experience with these things. He didn’t grow up in the church listening to “ghost stories” about demonic attacks. He probably didn’t even know it was possible.
And yet...for nearly three hours, he was the poster boy for spiritual oppression/ possession (in my mind, the jury’s still out on what term to use). In those three hours there wasn’t one moment where I saw him slip and step out of “character”, for lack of a better way of putting it. If this kid was faking, he deserves an Academy Award. And I could see an intelligence behind what was happening...the way he spoke to me...his trying to hurt himself...how the tactics changed as defeat was imminent (the distractions and lies). It all points to the fact that the spiritual realm is as real and tangible as this one.
"The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy..."
And no matter what you believe, this whole experience with Jose brings up a few interesting things to think about. For me, at any rate, I have no doubt that Satan and his demons exist. I saw them (or some pretty definitive evidence). And, as I said, they were subject to the name of Jesus. That obviously, reaffirmed a few things to me as well. We have victory and authority in Christ. I knew that...but this was a pretty powerful reminder.
"But I have come that you might have life..."
There is a battle raging here, and I need to make sure I’m prepared. To be truthful, I was caught off guard by this. If I’d made a list of kids who I thought this might be possible with...Jose’s name would be on the bottom of the list. So it just shows that I need to be vigilant and aware of what’s going on around me.
And finally...it’s only through prayer that freedom is possible. God is here with us. He’s listening and responding to our prayers.
Please continue to pray for us, and for this young guy. Obviously this was a big (and powerful) step in his spiritual life. It brought some things to the surface that needed to be in the light. As an author I like is fond of saying, darkness cannot exist where there is light. Light will always defeat the darkness. But the battle is not over for Jose. There will no doubt be some difficult days ahead of him. He struggles with feelings of doubt and discouragement. But I can also see that he’s encouraged, in that he’s seen God demonstrate His love and power. I just keep telling him he can move forward and come before God with confidence.
Thank you for praying. My poor parents are (I think) getting used to phone calls at weird times, “Okay I can’t talk right now, but I need you to pray. I’ll call later!” And so they do... =) As do many of you. Thank you for being such an important part of what happens down here! We appreciate it...
PS Okay...I wasn’t sure if I should share this story, but it made my mom laugh so....
Remember when I said earlier how, in emotional moments, you tend to lose the ability to speak in a foreign language? That sometimes I say dumb things? Well...when I left my room to call and ask Tonchi to come over, I also gathered the guys together to ask them to pray. I didn’t give them a lot of details, I just said that there was a serious spiritual attack happening, and I needed them to pray. I started to go back upstairs, but then thought that I should clarify things a bit. I didn’t want them freaking out or being afraid of what was happening (again, they don’t really have a lot of experience with these things). So I turned back and told them not to worry, that Satan always tries to use fear to manipulate us.
Except I didn’t say fear.
In Spanish, the word for "fear" and the word for...well...the stuff that's left behind when herd of cows goes by, are really, REALLY similar. Only one letter difference. So what I actually, in fact said was...
“Don’t worry, Satan always tries to use s***!”
Which technically is true. So....maybe it wasn’t the most polite way to say it, but I stand by my words. =)
A quick disclaimer...I’m changing a few of the details about the kid involved in this post for obvious reasons. But everything else is just how it happened.
So last Friday evening, a young guy I know came over to the house to visit. He’s a good kid, someone I’ve known for a lot of years. I’m going to call him Jose for simplicity’s sake. He had some things he wanted to talk about, so we sat down on my couch and started to talk. As the conversation progressed, we ended up getting into some things that I don’t think he’d originally planned to talk about. But these things seemed to be pretty heavy on his heart, and I guess he wanted to get it all out into the open. He tends to be that kind of a kid.
It was fairly serious, what was happening in his life, so we ended up talking for quite a while. At the end of the conversation, I suggested that we should talk more and that it would be a good idea to sit down with one of our pastors, Jorge, and talk with him as well. Jorge had a difficult time as a teenager (which he’s really open about) and had struggled with a lot of the similar issues this young guy was struggling with. I figured it would be a good idea to talk with him and include him in the conversation.
Jose started to cry and quickly became very emotional. I explained why I thought we should talk with Jorge and that I had no doubt that Jorge would be very understanding...but he just cried harder. I continued talking and trying to calm him down...but then a weird thing happened. In the midst of his tears, he started to laugh. Granted it’s not the first time that’s happened, as I tend to say dumb things in Spanish when I’m trying to comfort or counsel people (it’s tough to talk in another language when things are emotional...it’s easy to get mixed up).
At any rate, with the crying and laughing going on at the same time, alarm bells were going off in my head. So I told Jose that I was going to pray for him. Right away, his head came up and very aggressively, he was like, “Why? Why do you think you need to pray?!” I knew for sure then, that something was wrong. This was a kid that has never had a problem with praying.
I didn’t say anything more, I just put my hand on his shoulder and started to pray and take authority over anything spiritual that shouldn’t be there. Immediately Jose started to convulse and shake. I kept praying and he kept convulsing, until I couldn’t manage to keep him on the couch, and he fell onto the floor. I stopped praying for a moment and went to the door and yelled at the first kid I saw to come and help me. It ended up being one of the guys who’s probably one of the spiritually stronger guys in the house...but who’s also one of the newest Christians. It was fine, but we had to talk about a few things afterwards. =)
At any rate, he joined me, and we continued to pray. I won’t get into all the details, but there are a couple of things I’d like to mention. First of all, whenever Jose spoke to us, it was often in the plural...as in we are doing this or we won’t do that, etc. Occasionally when it was clearly Jose speaking, he also referred to the demons (and I have no doubt that we were dealing with the demonic here) in the plural. For example, at one point he said something about “They’re coming back...”.
There was something else that I found even more interesting. As I mentioned above, trying to speak in another language in the middle of an emotional moment? Near impossible. And trust me...this was an emotional moment. =) So I was praying and using my authority in Christ almost exclusively (at that point) in English. What was interesting, was that when I said or prayed something in English, Jose would turn to me and respond very precisely to what I’d just said, but in Spanish. Jose doesn’t speak hardly a word of English (other than your basic, “Hi, how are you? I am handsome.” You know...the important stuff), so his being able to respond to what I was saying was not possible. At least not in human terms. Not to mention that he was still thrashing and struggling. We were having to hold him still so that he wouldn’t hurt himself (he kept trying to bang his head into the cement/tile floor, so we had to keep a pillow under his head). That’s all just to say that it would have been incredible difficult for him to figure out what I was saying, even if he had known some English. There was just too much going on.
The third thing I wanted to mention, was that he physically responded to the name of Jesus every time we used it. Without fail. I add that, not because I was surprised (I wasn’t), but to emphasize that, from the very moment this started, the end result was a done deal. I’m not trying to pat myself on the back here, but from the beginning I wasn’t afraid or even nervous. I was confident in the victory that I knew we had. The fact that whatever demonic presences were affecting Jose, they were subject to Jesus. And, well....Jesus loves me. =)
They also responded when we read scripture. Later on, once Tonchi (our other pastor) came over, I was reading different passages about who we are in Christ, and the spiritual battle we’re in, as Tonchi prayed. Every time I read something (especially, interestingly enough, the passages about who we are as Christians), Jose would moan and bang his head on the floor even more (even though, again, I was reading them in English).
After close to an hour, it became increasingly obvious that this was not going to be easy. As I said, I had decided to call Tonchi to come over and help. Tonchi was a great help since he could respond faster in Spanish and we could take turns praying. Three different times it seemed like we were finished and things were calming down...but then as we spoke to Jose and tried to get him to respond to us, everything would flare up again. After awhile, Tonchi started to talk directly to Jose and to try and get him to say, “I am Jose, and in Jesus’ name I am free!” but for the longest time he couldn’t do it.
Eventually he managed to grind out the words, and as he said “I am Jose and in Jesus name...” it was like someone was touching him with a high powered electrical wire. His back arched to the point where the top of his head was actually touching the floor. The moment he said, “...I am free” it was seriously like the air going out of a balloon. He gasped and just slumped down onto the floor and lay there.
At that point, we managed to drag him back up onto the couch. The worst of the convulsing and shaking was passing, but Jose still wasn’t himself. He mostly still couldn’t speak (he was only sometimes seemingly aware that we were there), or when he did speak, he just keep responding with nonsense or things that didn’t matter. We continued to try to get him to declare his freedom, but it was a battle for sure. Sometimes he would shake again...another time it was like he was seeing something up by the ceiling that he couldn’t tear his eyes away from (Tonchi acutally put his hand in front of Jose to block his view)...still other times it was like he’d suddenly fallen asleep. Those times, Tonchi or I would just say that, in the name of Jesus we wanted to talk to Jose, and his eyes would pop open and he’d be back.
At any rate, suffice to say that it was a long process. Two and a half (almost three) hours long of a process. But in the end, Jose was back and was mostly himself (although obviously subdued and shaken). He was able to communicate normally. We talked some more with him, and then prayed and sent him to bed.
As I’ve thought about this over the past few days, it strikes me that there will likely be a few naysayer’s (both from my non-Christian friends, as well as likely a few from my Christian friends as well), who will likely be rather sceptical, shall we say, about this story. I get that. Anyone who knows me...at all...knows that I’m Mr. Sceptical himself. I’ve had different significant spiritual experiences in my life, and probably just about every time there’s a part of me that’s questioning and evaluating exactly what’s going on. =) It’s just who I am. As I think back to what happened that night, it still feels a bit dreamlike. It’s hard to believe it all happened.
So don’t think for a moment that I was just caught up in all of this and wasn’t paying attention to everything as it happened. Or that I’m exaggerating the details for effect. That’s really not me. What you read here is what happened. And from Jose’s perspective, he has no experience with these things. He didn’t grow up in the church listening to “ghost stories” about demonic attacks. He probably didn’t even know it was possible.
And yet...for nearly three hours, he was the poster boy for spiritual oppression/ possession (in my mind, the jury’s still out on what term to use). In those three hours there wasn’t one moment where I saw him slip and step out of “character”, for lack of a better way of putting it. If this kid was faking, he deserves an Academy Award. And I could see an intelligence behind what was happening...the way he spoke to me...his trying to hurt himself...how the tactics changed as defeat was imminent (the distractions and lies). It all points to the fact that the spiritual realm is as real and tangible as this one.
"The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy..."
And no matter what you believe, this whole experience with Jose brings up a few interesting things to think about. For me, at any rate, I have no doubt that Satan and his demons exist. I saw them (or some pretty definitive evidence). And, as I said, they were subject to the name of Jesus. That obviously, reaffirmed a few things to me as well. We have victory and authority in Christ. I knew that...but this was a pretty powerful reminder.
"But I have come that you might have life..."
There is a battle raging here, and I need to make sure I’m prepared. To be truthful, I was caught off guard by this. If I’d made a list of kids who I thought this might be possible with...Jose’s name would be on the bottom of the list. So it just shows that I need to be vigilant and aware of what’s going on around me.
And finally...it’s only through prayer that freedom is possible. God is here with us. He’s listening and responding to our prayers.
Please continue to pray for us, and for this young guy. Obviously this was a big (and powerful) step in his spiritual life. It brought some things to the surface that needed to be in the light. As an author I like is fond of saying, darkness cannot exist where there is light. Light will always defeat the darkness. But the battle is not over for Jose. There will no doubt be some difficult days ahead of him. He struggles with feelings of doubt and discouragement. But I can also see that he’s encouraged, in that he’s seen God demonstrate His love and power. I just keep telling him he can move forward and come before God with confidence.
Thank you for praying. My poor parents are (I think) getting used to phone calls at weird times, “Okay I can’t talk right now, but I need you to pray. I’ll call later!” And so they do... =) As do many of you. Thank you for being such an important part of what happens down here! We appreciate it...
PS Okay...I wasn’t sure if I should share this story, but it made my mom laugh so....
Remember when I said earlier how, in emotional moments, you tend to lose the ability to speak in a foreign language? That sometimes I say dumb things? Well...when I left my room to call and ask Tonchi to come over, I also gathered the guys together to ask them to pray. I didn’t give them a lot of details, I just said that there was a serious spiritual attack happening, and I needed them to pray. I started to go back upstairs, but then thought that I should clarify things a bit. I didn’t want them freaking out or being afraid of what was happening (again, they don’t really have a lot of experience with these things). So I turned back and told them not to worry, that Satan always tries to use fear to manipulate us.
Except I didn’t say fear.
In Spanish, the word for "fear" and the word for...well...the stuff that's left behind when herd of cows goes by, are really, REALLY similar. Only one letter difference. So what I actually, in fact said was...
“Don’t worry, Satan always tries to use s***!”
Which technically is true. So....maybe it wasn’t the most polite way to say it, but I stand by my words. =)
8 comments:
I doubt a lot of people in this world. You are not one of them my friend. Remember all the spiritual warfare that was happening before our first trip to Jamaica. Craziness. Absolute out there craziness. We are still praying here. Tell the guys they have a HUGE Canadian family praying good things for them. Jesus is our freedom. xox
My Mom just put me onto your blog today! I wish I'd been a faithful reader for longer!! I don't doubt your experience one little bit. Many years ago I went through a very similar experience in Saskatoon with a young girl who lived across the hall from my apartment. At 19 years old (I told you it was MANY years ago!), I was probably far less prepared for such a spiritual battle that you were at this point. Isn't it wonderful to know that we have authority over powers and principalities by the name and blood of our precious Jesus! I will be following your blog faithfully from now on. Count on me as one of your prayer warriors.
Totally another subject ... we seem to have a number of mutual friends with NO connection to where we grew up. I see Renee Evashkevich and Russ Friesen on your FB page. Renee used to teach my son piano lessons and Russ's wife Joyce is my daughters Teacher's Assistant at school. Such a small small world!!
Hey Kate...thanks for praying! Hi Marvel! Good to hear from you. Thanks for praying too! We appreciate it down here. =) Re: FB...I know, it's weird when I see random friends of mine who know each other. Renee and Russ and I all went to Briercrest together.
Anyhow...say hi to your family for me! Thanks again for praying guys!
Hi Ken,
I stumbled upon your blog totally by chance. I have a Google Alert set up for the term "cement tile" so your post that included the sentence about putting a pillow under his head on the cement tile floor...got caught in the filter and ended up in my inbox.
I am on the Alabama Gulf Coast and in the cement tile business. Villa Lagoon Tile so that is why I like to see what people are writing about cement tile aka mosaicos hidraulicos.
So now I am fascinated to know how you came to be in Bolivia fathering these boys. Would you add some bio info to the blog or on your Flickr profile page for all us random strangers who land in your lap...so to speak. I bet many people end up on your blog that you never know about. Just like me. I love reading about what fellow Christians are doing around the world.
Sincerely, (Ms) Lundy Wilder in Dixie
Hi Lundy...that's kind of a funny way to end up at my blog...especially considering the post you ended up at. =) You're right, I should (and will) update my profile. I changed blog hosts and didn't get around to doing that. I always kind of assume the most people here know who I am. Check in a day or two and I'll make sure there's some info there. You can e-mail me too, if you want, at ken.switzer@iteams.org and I can give you the story... =)
Thanks for writing! This kind of made my day... =)
Hi Ken,
Our mutual Jimmy referred me to this post because he knew I had a similar experience on a short-term trip to Southeast Asia a couple years ago. Spiritual warfare is definitely real, and not something we're trained to deal with in most churches. A book I found helpful to read after our experience was Charles Kraft's "I Give You Authority". It's worth taking a look at.
Blessings on your ministry!
Thanks Chris...I'll take a look and see if I can find it. Neil Anderson's Freedom in Christ books are great too. That's probably where I learned most of what I know...
Good to have you here! =)
Thanks for being so open about this, Ken. Very helpful. Can't say I've had experiences quite this dramatic, but as you say, "I’ve had different significant spiritual experiences in my life, and probably just about every time there’s a part of me that’s questioning and evaluating exactly what’s going on." I've got this interesting mix of mystical and analytical/intellectual. Sometimes they serve one another, sometimes they clash. But there is no way to argue with the power of Jesus Christ.
Bless you as you continue to father these boys.
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